Sunday, December 28, 2003

In this thread over at The High Road, a rather interesting discussion was getting started. Specifically around page 4 it was becoming more interesting to me, but alas, it deviated too much from the original topic & was locked.

The orginal question was about answering or not answering an LEO's questions at a traffic stop. It morphed however into a discussion of what constitutes legitimate law enforcement (i.e. how can a cop vioate your Rights by merely enforcing the law) & what defines one as "pro-gun".

First let's look at the "pro-gun" definition.

A law enforcement officer made the claim that he was " pro-gun as anybody..." while going on to say that there needs to be some gun laws to keep the wrong people from having weapons & cops should not be blamed for enforcing those laws. He seemed a little miffed when i pointed out that he was not in fact pro gun, but simple not as hard core anti as others are.

But here's what I think is a workable definition of "pro-gun": Being oppossed to any prior restraint based gun control laws.

Simple, eh?

Of course that's not very popular as it would exclude those who think that we should enfocre the laws we have. In other words those who think the NFA of 34 &/or any firearm law since then would not fall under my definition of pro-gun. That's simply because they in fact support gun control. So it ticks people off who are not members of the VPC that they wouldn't be considered "pro-gun".

Folks there are varying degress of damn near everything, but generally being "pro" or "anti" means you're either in favor of something or against it. These are two extreme points with most people who label themselves one or the other falling in between. & labels do tend to take on their own meanings over time, especially to those on one side of the issue or the other, but for my purposes & from my perspective I see it as a person either being for gun control or against it, with those who support even minimal gun control as being less than "pro-gun".

& I'm sure there are die hard firearms prohibitionists who see anything less than a desire to confiscate all civilian owned arms as being "pro-gun". But I think that wanting most guns left alone while some are confiscated helps the anti's more than those who want most guns confiscated but some left alone helps us.

That's not to say they're necessarily bad people, or they're our enemies; just they lack either an understanding of the subject or that they are not absolutely on my side all of the time. Sure, they'd help out if an effort was needed to stop a bill that would ban all firearms, but maybe not one that let anyone carry concealed sans permit, or one that made short barreled shotguns legal w/o the extensive paperwork we know have.

Here's an old joke that perhaps illustrates my point:

A man walks up to a woman in a bar. he asks her if she'd sleep with him for $1,000,000. She says yep she would. He then asks if she'd sleep with him for $5. She looks offended & replies, "What kind of girl do you think I am?!?!?". He answers. "Ma'am, we've already established that; now we're bartering".

Similarly those who support prior restraint based gun control laws are offended if you dispute their assertions of being pro-gun. The fact is if you support a little gun control, then what you are is already established. What you're contending is the degree to whcih you are anti-gun. More or less you're attempting to use a relative standard to include yourself in an absolute definition.

But if you do support some gun control laws - fine. I'll argue with you all day long about the effectiveness of said laws, & they're Constitutionality & the degrees to which they violate our Rights. I won't spit on you or otherwise degrade you even if I do disparage your decision. But don't try to tell me you're pro-gun while wanting to infringe upon my Right to Arms.

So what is a good word or phrase to describe those who are not "pro-gun" by my definition but not "anti-gun" by the gun prohibitionists definition?

& I'll try to address the other topics covered in the aforelinked High Road thread at some point soon, as they tie in well with the post I've been thinking about for weeks concerning revolution.

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